Importance of rifle build components

[trevort]

Glen I have mostly nice rifles to compensate for average ability. And it’s a given the better shooter usually beats the lower skilled one but he’s gonna shoot better scores with a more accurate rifle


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[Camel]

Actions shouldn’t be RAF productions. Read about “trueing an action “

What is the bullet going to do in flight if it doesn’t enter the barrel straight on?

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After the bullet has entered the chamber, all that is required of the action is to stop the cartridge from backing out, and to provide the firing pin strike, it will have minimal or no effect on how the bullet performs in the air, the chamber holds the cartridge straight in the barrel, not the action.

There have been and still are, plenty of actions out that that have not been trued up that shoot exceptionally accurate. Hell, I can remember a couple of blokes in West Aust that got an old Lee Enfield to reliably shoot 1/2 moa groups, admittedly, they did have to do a fair bit of work to get to that.

To assume that because you have a flash supper dooper action it will have a greater effect on accuracy than most of those other things listed is, I believe, a bit naive.

Hmmm barrel and action should be one and two with the gunsmiths ability to fit them together with the bore perfectly square to the bolt face third and then bedding job and trigger


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Exactly what Trevor said!

How can you put the action last?

Glenn

It has the least input into the bullet reaching its intended target, all it does is provide an endstop to the chamber.

So your saying all actions are created equal?
Yeah right!

I agree with Trevor again!

Glenn

No, I am not saying that, though they are all doing the same job, if one does it slightly better than the other, I don't know, all it does is put the cartridge in the chamber and hold it there and provide the firing pin strike.

[trevort]

Camel you can remain happy in your ignorance. It isn’t my job to educate you.



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[Camel]

Camel you can remain happy in your ignorance. It isn’t my job to educate you.



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Because you can’t find any evidence to refute, or you don’t want to admit someone who thinks differently to the “enlightened” may have the ability to question ? Remember the old beliefs on flat v round earth? Guess you went with the flat theory, eh ?

[Glenn]

To assume that because you have a flash supper dooper action it will have a greater effect on accuracy than most of those other things listed is, I believe, a bit naive.

Camel at his best, commenting on something he has never used, who is the naive one!!

Camel you can remain happy in your ignorance. It isn’t my job to educate you.

Exactly!!

I have custom guns for one reason, accuracy, if I miss it's my fault, not the guns!
I was a pistol shooter for 6 years, from that I learnt, sights, breathing and trigger control are critical!

How about we just agree to disagree!

Glenn

[macca]

Hmmm. I have no doubts that a good action of any make will shoot accurately.
The issue sometimes is clouded by other factors.
I have shot and owned Bat and other top line actions.
I currently use two sleeved remingtons in competition and sometimes a Barnard.
I am relatively competitive when I get it right.
So why would you use the expensive custom actions. They are smooth and faster on bags allowing shooters to get shots down in conditions of their choosing better then other actions.
The fact is I sold both my Bats and bought better glass and reloading gear because they were no more accurate then my other actions. I do miss them when conditions require maxium speed and smoothness on the bags.
I still stand by my earlier comment that a rifle is the sum of its parts and if one is lacking then accuracy will suffer.
cheers

[Seddo]

If it's a target rifle reamer before barrel and action according to some knowledgable blokes I listen too.
To be bluntly honest all components are equally important a broken useless scope negates every other component. As does a door latch trigger. Poor bedding etc.
To be truly accurate all components must be equal in importance or the system doesn't work and therefor will not be accurate.
That's my take.

I'm with Jacko, if any of those 10 items don't do the job they are intended to do then the end result will be poor.

[mistit]

my question is camel what do you class as accurate , i believe you can list the action at the bottom of the list if you are chasing a half moa gun but if your chasing a quarter moa gun then its up there too , doesnt matter if its a factory action but it would want to be trued up in most circumstances if your chasing a true quarter moa at 300 yds the barrel is definetly number 1 though , in the end its all relavent to what we class as accurate

[Camel]

Camel you can remain happy in your ignorance. It isn’t my job to educate you.



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To assume that because you have a flash supper dooper action it will have a greater effect on accuracy than most of those other things listed is, I believe, a bit naive.

Camel at his best, commenting on something he has never used, who is the naive one!!

Camel you can remain happy in your ignorance. It isn’t my job to educate you.

Exactly!!

I have custom guns for one reason, accuracy, if I miss it's my fault, not the guns!
I was a pistol shooter for 6 years, from that I learnt, sights, breathing and trigger control are critical!

How about we just agree to disagree!

Glenn

I didn't start this topic to be a shit slinging match, nor a dick measuring contest, however if you two want to go that way, by all means do, but maybe put up a few comments that may be helpful to the discussion ?

[Camel]

Hmmm. I have no doubts that a good action of any make will shoot accurately.
The issue sometimes is clouded by other factors.
I have shot and owned Bat and other top line actions.
I currently use two sleeved remingtons in competition and sometimes a Barnard.
I am relatively competitive when I get it right.
So why would you use the expensive custom actions. They are smooth and faster on bags allowing shooters to get shots down in conditions of their choosing better then other actions.
The fact is I sold both my Bats and bought better glass and reloading gear because they were no more accurate then my other actions. I do miss them when conditions require maxium speed and smoothness on the bags.
I still stand by my earlier comment that a rifle is the sum of its parts and if one is lacking then accuracy will suffer.
cheers

yep, you are probably correct there macca.

If it's a target rifle reamer before barrel and action according to some knowledgable blokes I listen too.
To be bluntly honest all components are equally important a broken useless scope negates every other component. As does a door latch trigger. Poor bedding etc.
To be truly accurate all components must be equal in importance or the system doesn't work and therefor will not be accurate.
That's my take.

I'm with Jacko, if any of those 10 items don't do the job they are intended to do then the end result will be poor.

I guess, there is no real answer to the question, so many different people believing different things, either right or wrong, that would be up to each individual

[Camel]

my question is camel what do you class as accurate , i believe you can list the action at the bottom of the list if you are chasing a half moa gun but if your chasing a quarter moa gun then its up there too , doesnt matter if its a factory action but it would want to be trued up in most circumstances if your chasing a true quarter moa at 300 yds the barrel is definetly number 1 though , in the end its all relavent to what we class as accurate

OK, a fair question, and probably something that I should have mentioned at the beginning. So, lets say a rifle that you would grab out of the safe when you are going to be knocking off critters from rabbits to culling roos, from various distances from just out the door of the ute, to a realistic 3 to 350 yds. I guess that would include magazine rifles. Something that would be your first choice, are confident with and will give you more 1 shot kills at those ranges. Coming from my end of the equation, I have never shot competition, just critters.

[mistit]

my question is camel what do you class as accurate , i believe you can list the action at the bottom of the list if you are chasing a half moa gun but if your chasing a quarter moa gun then its up there too , doesnt matter if its a factory action but it would want to be trued up in most circumstances if your chasing a true quarter moa at 300 yds the barrel is definetly number 1 though , in the end its all relavent to what we class as accurate

OK, a fair question, and probably something that I should have mentioned at the beginning. So, lets say a rifle that you would grab out of the safe when you are going to be knocking off critters from rabbits to culling roos, from various distances from just out the door of the ute, to a realistic 3 to 350 yds. I guess that would include magazine rifles. Something that would be your first choice, are confident with and will give you more 1 shot kills at those ranges. Coming from my end of the equation, I have never shot competition, just critters.

For that kind of accuracy I’d say your on the right track
Pigs , Roos foxes half Moa all day
Them black feathered bastards half Moa is good but quarter Moa is better

[Tony Z]

Mark what is it you wish to do? Varmint gun? Or competition gun?
If its competition then its the three Bs. Bullets, barrels and brass. In that order. Then you build around the bullet, because bullets win matches.
Pick your bullet. Pick the barrel you favor or can get. Then get the brass to launch it at the speed you want and that can survive multiple firings ie Lapua, RWS or Norma. The rest is junk.

As a fellow 25 cal devotee.....
108 JLK 25 or 110 Fowler
10 twist Hart
308 Lapua brass formed into 25 Souper.

The above is an unknown quantity i should have tried in competition years ago. The 25 Souper is the most accurate 25 cal i ever saw of the half dozen or so 25 cals i have done. The 25 x 55 Swede Imp was the next best. The Souper was kinder to the barrel and was the most efficient but i would use it simply because 308 brass is everywhere. As are Souper dies. (Simplex)
Then you build around that.

I have some bullets i can swing your way to get you going.
Cheers.

[Tony Z]

Mark i just read it was for a field gun. Delete the above.

[mistit]

Mark what is it you wish to do? Varmint gun? Or competition gun?
If its competition then its the three Bs. Bullets, barrels and brass. In that order. Then you build around the bullet, because bullets win matches.
Pick your bullet. Pick the barrel you favor or can get. Then get the brass to launch it at the speed you want and that can survive multiple firings ie Lapua, RWS or Norma. The rest is junk.

As a fellow 25 cal devotee.....
108 JLK 25 or 110 Fowler
10 twist Hart
308 Lapua brass formed into 25 Souper.

The above is an unknown quantity i should have tried in competition years ago. The 25 Souper is the most accurate 25 cal i ever saw of the half dozen or so 25 cals i have done. The 25 x 55 Swede Imp was the next best. The Souper was kinder to the barrel and was the most efficient but i would use it simply because 308 brass is everywhere. As are Souper dies. (Simplex)
Then you build around that.

I have some bullets i can swing your way to get you going.
Cheers.

Tony what sought of accuracy and velocity are you getting
I thought about a super years ago after owning a 2506 that I could never get to shoot up to standard
Some real world experience would be good
Cheers